tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.comments2024-03-28T00:25:27.947-07:00<br> <br><br><br> <br> <br> The Proud HolobiontsUgo Bardihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18231859786466899924noreply@blogger.comBlogger246125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-48620349534317209422023-12-26T20:50:29.582-08:002023-12-26T20:50:29.582-08:00I sleep to this every nightI sleep to this every nightSVANNAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-20531614333743739462023-09-29T02:44:51.530-07:002023-09-29T02:44:51.530-07:00Equations for hate and love! I love it and I hate ...Equations for hate and love! I love it and I hate it.<br /><br />Being limited in number may be perceived as a lose sitiuation, but it is actually this limitation what allows the species to survive in the long term, so it's a win situation.<br />Without limits, there is madness.abrahamjpalmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06014805149988632353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-75582099363518488462023-09-27T21:11:41.534-07:002023-09-27T21:11:41.534-07:00The presence of two populations that influence eac...The presence of two populations that influence each other is the dynamic aspect that is modeled in the SIR model. This also occurs in the interaction of entities, interaction that we do not recognize as holobiontic. It is therefore useful to also indicate where the difference lies.<br />The change in the population N at one step in the process is modeled by the Verhulst equation (r)N(1-N/(k)) where (r) and (k) are factors. (k) is called the carrying capacity of the species in an environment.<br />We now distinguish two populations N and M and two equations (r1)N(1-N/(k1)) and (r2)M(1-M/(k2)).<br />If both share the same environment, the numbers N and M influence each other, which we indicate with a factor (a12) versus (a21).<br />(r1)N(1-N/(k1)-(a12)M/(k1))<br />(r2)M(1-M/(k2)-(a21)N/(k2))<br />This models something different than a holobiont and this is a symmetrical relationship: each species is limited by the same environment they share and thus are in competition with each other for that environment.<br />A holobiont arises from an asymmetric relationship: one of the species is dependent on the other, such as prey and predator or host and parasite, and is modeled by similar but asymmetric equations:<br />(r1)N(1-(a12)M)<br />-(r2)M(1-(a21)N)<br />The major difference between the two is that with asymmetry a species will never completely disappear, while with symmetry this is possible.<br />To speak of synergy and win-win is to focus on partial entities, although this is misleading for readers who are stuck in the story of growth: in a holobiont some species (which are therefore dependent on others) will be limited in number (think of number of predators).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-69292122587619993962023-09-23T10:59:06.098-07:002023-09-23T10:59:06.098-07:00I think every eukaryotic cell is already a holobio...I think every eukaryotic cell is already a holobiont. There is a good case to be made that "God" is a universal-consciousness holobiont, but I'm not prepared to vigorously argue it.<br />:-)John Dayhttps://drjohnsblog.substack.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-5547227437784549212023-09-23T08:34:16.755-07:002023-09-23T08:34:16.755-07:00What makes a holobiont function is fitting into th...What makes a holobiont function is fitting into the trophic flow of the whole ecosystem. Keystone species are essential, whether they are keystone predators or ecological engineers, like wolves or beavers. One species in particular appears to function in both niches - humans have been therefore proposed as a a “hyper-keystone” species, by none other than the originator of the whole concept: https://www.cell.com/trends/ecology-evolution/fulltext/S0169-5347(16)30065-9?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0169534716300659%3Fshowall%3DtrueAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-73409537564450821872023-09-23T07:35:11.262-07:002023-09-23T07:35:11.262-07:00A nice easy example. Leads directly into what I w...A nice easy example. Leads directly into what I write about -- now consider the complexity of the information transmitted, and the information coherence inside the channel, as well as the network topology. Holobionts are going to only have the means available to them, and so are going to reach informational homeostasis based on those means -- hence, for birds, it is a limited number of states. And so on...Chuck Pezeshkihttp://empathy.gurunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-48437436240907780182023-09-18T05:49:35.359-07:002023-09-18T05:49:35.359-07:00Thank you, Ugo. This reminds me of how the waterwa...Thank you, Ugo. This reminds me of how the waterways in Yellowstone park were rehabilitated by the reintroduction of wolves. The deer had overgrazed, which led to erosion. Habitat is shaped by ecological relationships, but it is invisible to us until something lays it out clearly.John Dayhttps://drjohnsblog.substack.com/publish/homenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-13665967875400354492023-09-13T01:47:53.940-07:002023-09-13T01:47:53.940-07:00Recently I am elaborating the concept that Love is...Recently I am elaborating the concept that Love is just what gives systems their resilience. When we are part of a system, the more positive relationships it forms, the more capable it is to adapt to perturbations. These relationships are cooperative, predatory and parasitic. Every relationship is a link in this chain. Then we have the competitive relationship which is a race for survival of the fittests. The former relationships give stability, the latter one gives evolution.<br />My thinking goes here: [b] the relationships that give stability are expressions of love, while competition is a expression of hate[/b].<br /><br />I had some trouble fitting the idea of love into the predatory and parasitic relationships. Surely, the predator loves to eat its prey, but can the same be said for the prey? Actually, yes.<br /><br />It's not that the prey loves being killed and eaten, but the prey accepts its place in the food chain and finds strategies for survival other than exterminating the predators, fear being one of such strategies. Maybe unwillingly, preys create the conditions for predators to thrive. At the same time predators prevent preys to become overpopulated, so in the end preys thrive too. Isn't that love?<br /><br />It's when we fight for the same resources, the same niches, that hate appears. Hate in the sense of wishing to do harm to others. That's why we don't allow predators around our herds and wolves have been hated for so long.<br /><br />So let me put it in these other terms: Love is the behaviour that connects elements of a system together in enduring relationships, while hate is the behaviour that seeks to remove weak elements from that system.<br />I remark I am not talking about feelings, but about actions, although they may be related. No matter how much I think I love my wife, if I don't express my feelings with actions, I am not actually loving her. The feeling might be there, but it's the action what matters.<br /><br /><br />Is the tree connecting with Sara? Sara is comforting in its shade, so we know at least one of the sides is gaining something. Even if the tree gains nothing, it is allowing Sara to benefit, not resisting her. (Well, maybe the tree was expecting some manure in return, maybe next time, trees are patient beings). A link, weak as it may, has been formed. Strengthen this link by frequent visits, and this link may turn into friendship.abrahamjpalmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06014805149988632353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-88680624081067862922023-09-12T10:42:57.755-07:002023-09-12T10:42:57.755-07:00Brilliant! and interesting! Thank you, A.ChikunovBrilliant! and interesting! Thank you, A.ChikunovAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-57783602722127092912023-09-05T18:56:31.102-07:002023-09-05T18:56:31.102-07:00There is a comfort of closeness which might be cal...There is a comfort of closeness which might be called "love". Trees and humans can be comfortable in closeness. I often knew that as a boy. <br />(I can't strictly speak for saplings.)John Dayhttps://drjohnsblog.substack.com/publish/homenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-51288902742128559172023-09-03T15:31:33.399-07:002023-09-03T15:31:33.399-07:00Hello, Degringolade. As far as I understand, there...Hello, Degringolade. As far as I understand, there has been no change in the way global temperatures are measured. It is still done by thermometers located 2 meters above the ground. Usually, you find the "2m" mark in the temperature plots. What has happened in recent times is that satellites are providing data obtained by infrared thermometers, and these are "ground temperatures" -- these thermometers cannot measure temperature above ground. This has generated a certain degree of confusion, since these ground temperatures are higher than those at 2m. And some people jumped on the occasion of creating some alarm to get some more clicks by reporting extremely high temperatures. But, as I said, nothing has changed. We just have to compare what is comparable, and by far the longest time record we have is the 2m one. The satellite record is too recent to be used to infer long time trends. Ugo Bardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231859786466899924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-21564184351111252842023-08-31T08:06:56.097-07:002023-08-31T08:06:56.097-07:00Hello Ugo...it has been a long time since I commen...Hello Ugo...it has been a long time since I commented. Sorry about that, but I am trying to get into a "retirement groove" and am just now managing having too much time and too many interests.<br /><br />Anyway, I am working on just doing data reviews on temperatures. But from what I can see, it appears that the data set has been changed from air temps to ground temps. What I am wondering is (and this isn't a demand for info, but rather, a humble request to someone who knows more than I): <br /><br />Am I wrong? (this is the more likely scenario)<br />or<br />when did this occur?<br /><br />Sorry about the off-topic, I have been trying to find the actual datasets, but all I can find is analyses<br /><br />Degringoladehttps://degringolade.dreamwidth.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-61572174492874794062023-08-26T17:29:39.597-07:002023-08-26T17:29:39.597-07:00A gentle view of these iintimately cooperative org...A gentle view of these iintimately cooperative organisms. I willavoid the obvious pun and say that I "enjoyed" this article.<br />:-)John Dayhttps://drjohnsblog.substack.com/p/wagner-is-back-under-general-armageddonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-89739282040237282962023-08-05T01:41:45.790-07:002023-08-05T01:41:45.790-07:00Ah.... well, John, they look like reptiles, but th...Ah.... well, John, they look like reptiles, but they are not. Mera didn't tell me everything. It seems to be some kind of a well-guarded secret. But, apparently, their mitochondria are hyper-powered by some mechanism which is not the Krebs cycle. Not clear what it is, but it makes them rather emotional individualists. Ugo Bardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231859786466899924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-4743862706551942332023-08-04T14:00:07.526-07:002023-08-04T14:00:07.526-07:00Shouldn't reptiles be more... reptilian, colde...Shouldn't reptiles be more... reptilian, colder, more analytical, less repulsed by variant life-forms, more like research scientists?<br />I also wonder about the trainees being young, and seeming young. Are they hatched on the journey? How does this come to be?John Dayhttps://drjohnsblog.substack.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-19923486407857254822023-08-04T08:39:35.033-07:002023-08-04T08:39:35.033-07:00That is a delightful read.That is a delightful read.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-12775375984179983052023-06-26T20:32:06.732-07:002023-06-26T20:32:06.732-07:00For 50 years I have worked in my spare time on asp...For 50 years I have worked in my spare time on aspects of a science-based civilization on a purely biotic material basis. I suspect this may catch your attention as I see we were apparently both inspired by the “The limits to growth” publication and I recognize the biotic focus in your holobiont blog. I have written a summary in the format of a scenario that can be experimented with today. I can of course explain this in more detail if you wish.<br /><br />See: http://designforeveryone.ugent.be/Aardbolschip/A_long-term_civilization.html<br /><br /><br />Best regards<br /><br />Walter DejongheAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-50010302138567197262023-06-26T12:48:33.152-07:002023-06-26T12:48:33.152-07:00Helga Vierich here:
Humans evolved as a keystone...Helga Vierich here: <br /><br />Humans evolved as a keystone species of ecological engineers. THAT is the role that was eroded - almost completely - under the commercialization of logging, fishing, and farming during the industrial period, although it was already degraded by earlier over-exploitation of ecosystems during urbanization and increased social stratification by past civilizations. <br /><br />There are still sustainable subsistence-oriented economies - nowadays they are generally lumped together as “indigenous” systems of hunting and gathering, horticulture, and nomadic pastoralism. These have recently been recognized as the managers of the few remaining pockets of high species diversity on the planet. These are human economies that are truly representative of a vital role within the holobiont of the living planet. <br /><br />If humans are to survive climate change and restore the complex and viable holobiont of spaceship “earth” the science and wisdom of these ancient systems of ecological engineering must be preserved and integrated with any future cultural adaptations humans undertake. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-35999163781318977202023-06-19T05:10:52.809-07:002023-06-19T05:10:52.809-07:00Marti, I fear that's one of the "so widel...Marti, I fear that's one of the "so widely known thing that doesn't need to be said", that happens to be not so widely known outside the circle of specialists. After that, the specialists throw a bunch of statements and you have but to trust them, because you no longer can follow their reasoning.abrahamjpalmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06014805149988632353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-53055624929640484712023-06-18T15:43:14.664-07:002023-06-18T15:43:14.664-07:00Ui, again I see I was not quite clear. I'm act...Ui, again I see I was not quite clear. I'm actually not an astrophysicist. Just a regular physicist, recycled as an engineered. Enough to understand, from your post, the dynamics of the 14C concentration in the atmosphere without further clarifying. That is, the "zero" I was looking for is the equilibrium between the cosmic rays "making" 14C and the 14C decay destroying it, as you say. It was clear enough from the beginning. My initial comment was just to thank you for a piece of knowledge I feel I should have but I didn't. Now it's fine.<br />The calibration using tree rings is something I didn't know neither, I guess it answers my doubts about the inaccuracy due to the cosmic rays not being constant, at least for as old as we can find trees. I guess there are other methods for older stuff. It's ok, I'm happy enough with this level of detail. I don't need more.<br />Unluckily, the people who wrote the article you commented didn't have one of those redundant measurements to cross-check the validity of their stuff. And arguably, they might have been happy to ignore it in case they had. :)Martinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-40460905660642642152023-06-17T08:33:46.400-07:002023-06-17T08:33:46.400-07:00Wow, if you are an astrophysicist, I think you kno...Wow, if you are an astrophysicist, I think you know much more than me on this matter. However, if it may help, I can tell you what I understood of this story. And the basic elements are rather simple. Cosmic rays create 14C out of normal N2. This 14C decays back exponentially to 14N, but slowly enough that it has the time to be incorporated into the living matter of the biosphere (half life of less than 6000 years). If the cosmic ray flux were constant, you would have an equilibrium concentration in the atmosphere (and also the biosphere) when the decaying 14C equals the new 14C, implying that the decay flow is proportional to the size of the 14C stock. That's, I think the "zero" you are mentioning: a certain constant value of 14C in the atmosphere. Then, of course, the flow of cosmic rays is only approximately constant. Dating with 14C is calibrated using measurements mainly on tree rings. All that, of course, before humans started tampering with the atmosphere in various ways. Ugo Bardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231859786466899924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-88488425556656407302023-06-17T03:21:29.252-07:002023-06-17T03:21:29.252-07:00Sorry, the comment was poorly written. I was feeli...Sorry, the comment was poorly written. I was feeling sleepy. It's about a doubt I've always had, now solved by your post. When one hears about 14C dating it uses to be in history, anthropology and fields like this. The person explaining has an idea about decay and explains it. But for it to be useful there needs to be an initial 14C share that is more or less constant at some point (the clock to 0), and from there we measure time, given a known decay rate. This is where things got fuzzy to me as no one ever told me when exactly this 14C constant concentration occurs and why. I mean, at school or in the rare occasions where I thought about it. Visiting a museum, for instance.<br />I'm actually a physicist and I've worked as an engineer for some 10 years in an astrophysics/planetology labs, so I certainly had people around me who knew, but the question never raised at the right moment.<br />No big deal. Thank you.Martinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-87024440977092983992023-06-16T12:07:55.660-07:002023-06-16T12:07:55.660-07:00I am not sure I understand "put the clock to ...I am not sure I understand "put the clock to 0." What do you mean, exactly?Ugo Bardihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231859786466899924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-66290229635463938282023-06-15T17:07:50.255-07:002023-06-15T17:07:50.255-07:00It is not the main subject of the article, but I m...It is not the main subject of the article, but I must thank you for a doubt I've been having for years. When dating using the 14C, what's the physical phenomena that puts the clock to 0? Never I've found someone who could answer, and here it is, as simple as that. I guess I never asked to the right people, or taped the correct key words. I used to speculate that it was something related with photosynthesis selecting one specific proportion of 14C, quite strange an argument, I admit. Thanks. Although now I wonder, how much this "more or less constant" affects the accuracy of 14C dating? Does this 14C concentration in the atmosphere changes with solar radiation intensity?<br />Well, we unfold one doubt to find a few more.Martinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3190935508807747675.post-64755273260023208132023-06-15T05:11:04.227-07:002023-06-15T05:11:04.227-07:00Thank you. That would be 10% of GHE, not accountin...Thank you. That would be 10% of GHE, not accounting for the loss of forests temperature regulation. (I admit it is smaller than I thought).<br />Anyway, anthropogenic or not, it doesn't look like we will be able to address the causes and we are left to deal with the consequences.abrahamjpalmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06014805149988632353noreply@blogger.com